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Path: senator-bedfellow.mit.edu!enterpoop.mit.edu!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!news.claremont.edu!ucivax!gateway From: levine@ics.uci.edu ("David Levine") Subject: ca.driving FAQ Nntp-Posting-Host: liege.ics.uci.edu Expires: +2 months Message-ID: <ca-driving-faq_740108434@ics.uci.edu> Newsgroups: ca.driving,news.answers Reply-To: levine@ics.uci.edu Approved: news-answers-request@MIT.Edu Lines: 1316 Supersedes: <ca-driving-faq_734828828@ics.uci.edu> Distribution: na Date: 15 Jun 93 01:40:41 GMT Followup-To: poster Archive-name: ca-driving-faq Last-modified: $Date: 1993/06/15 01:40:32 $ Version: $Revision: 1.12 $ Below are some recurring questions about driving in California. Some answers are extracted from net postings. Answers include the name and email address of the author unless anonymity was requested, in which case no author is listed. Please send any additions, corrections, or suggestions to the update address listed in an answer, or to the Reply-To address in the header of this message. Many FAQs, including this one, are available via FTP on the archive site rtfm.mit.edu (18.172.1.27) in the directory pub/usenet/news.answers. The name under which this FAQ is archived appears in the Archive-name line above (ca-driving-faq). Disclaimer: any information contained herein may be incorrect and/or may simply be an expression of opinion. No guarantee of suitability for any purpose is offered or implied. No responsibility is assumed for any use, or for any consequences resulting from any use, of information contained herein. the questions: 1.I got a ticket for XXXX. Can I beat it in court and how? 2.There's a mistake on the ticket I just got. Does that invalidate it? 3.How do I get a copy of the California Vehicle Code? 4.What are some noteworthy or peculiar California Vehicle Code laws? 5.What is the grace period for getting a driver's license after establishing residency in California? What is the grace period for vehicle registration? 6.Is it legal to change lanes in the middle of an intersection? 7.How much are the gasoline taxes in CA? 8.Are there special license plates of Yosemite's Tunnel View? 9.How much insurance must a driver carry? 10.Do insurance companies have to be licensed in CA? How can I tell if one is? 11.Can my insurer legally ask me for my roommates' names and license numbers? 12.What are some locations of speed and carpool lane enforcement traps? 13.Are radar detectors illegal in CA, or just not popular for some reason? 14.Do I have to have my driver's license with me when driving? 15.Do I have to have any identification with me while not driving? 16.Am I entitled to a jury trial for my traffic ticket? Can I have counsel appointed at public expense? Can I be sent to prison if found guilty? 17.Can a local cop cite you for speeding on an Interstate? 18.Can a CHP officer write a ticket for an offense not committed on a freeway? 19.What's the difference between the CA Highway Patrol and the CA State Police? 20.What information is in the driver license mag stripe? 21.How often can I be cited for expired vehicle registration? And is it always or never a fix-it ticket? 22.Does my vehicle have to be registered, even if I don't drive it? 23.How much will it cost to import to CA and register an out-of-state vehicle? 24.Do out-of-state tickets appear on your California DMV printout, and can insurance companies can find this info out if they don't? 25.Does the DMV find out about tickets received from Federal authorities? 26.Do tickets dismissed by traffic school attendance appear on my DMV record? 27.Why can't I both argue my case in court and use traffic school to keep the points off my license if I lose? 28.I've heard about "comedy traffic schools". Has anyone tried one of these? 29.When you see a sign "Litter removal next two miles by organization XXX", what exactly does XXX do? 30.What are some recommended readings? 31.What are some useful phone numbers and/or addresses? 32.Is window tinting legal? What about pull-down blinds and window stickers? 33.Do I need chains in the mountains if I have snow tires? If so, what kind? 34.What's the net.recommendation for motorcycle insurance? 35.What is a "CHiPs detector"? What's the complete story on CHP radios? 36.But aren't most citizens prohibited from using mobile radio scanners? and the answers: 1.I got a ticket for XXXX. Can I beat it in court and how? It's hard to answer that question generally. Some random suggestions: -- Pick up a copy of Nolo Press' _Fight_Your_Ticket_ (see the recommended readings question for ordering information and a review). -- Read the text of the law that you were cited for. It's usually a CVC citation, see the question on getting a copy of the California Vehicle Code. -- In some counties, if you go to court you waive the option to choose traffic school. See the question on traffic school attendance for more information. And call the clerk of the court where you got the ticket to find out what your options are. 2.There's a mistake on the ticket I just got. Does that invalidate it? from calley@optilink.com (Chris Calley) on 25 mar 93: Should you decide to fight the ticket, you might be able to argue that since the cop was not observant in writing down the correct state on your citation, that he/she might also have not been observant regarding your speed. I do not believe that the simple fact that an error exists on the citation automatically gets the ticket dismissed. from makey@VisiCom.com (Jeff Makey) on 26 mar 93: About 5 years ago I got a speeding ticket in Maryland while driving a rented car. Everything on the citation was correct but my driver's license number (the cop wrote down some other number that was on my license). I paid the fine rather than travel back to Maryland to fight it, and my insurance company *did* eventually find out about it. I assume that the ticket showed up on my California driving record, but never checked to be sure. So don't expect a wrong license number to keep your record clean. 3.How do I get a copy of the California Vehicle Code? Go to any DMV office and pay $3.00. Many libraries carry it or a privately pulished version with interpretations and case references, such as West's Annotated California Codes and Deering's California Codes. 4.What are some noteworthy or peculiar California Vehicle Code laws? Disclaimer: these are paraphrased, and therefore may be wrong. If you need to know exactly what the law says, please look it up! -- both license plates issued for a vehicle must be displayed [CVC 5200] -- a seller of a vehicle has 5 days to notify the DMV of the sale [CVC 5900] -- a new owner must apply to the DMV for transfer of registration within 10 days [CVC 5902] -- an accident must be reported within 10 days to the DMV in Sacramento if there is death, bodily injury, or property damage > $500 [CVC 16000] -- U-turns are permitted on any green light unless signs prohibit[CVC 21451] -- a driver may not stop IN the crosswalk for a red light [CVC 21453(a)] -- right turn on circular red (not a red arrow!), and left turn on circular red from a one-way street onto a one-way street, are permitted after stopping and unless otherwise posted [CVC 21453(b)] -- a driver may not turn against a red arrow for the indicated turn regardless of signals shown for other movements [CVC 21453(c)] -- curb markings [CVC 21458}: red: no stopping, standing, or parking yellow: stopping only for loading or unloading passengers or freight white: loading/unloading passengers, or depositing mail in adjacent box green: time limit parking specified by local ordinance blue: handicap parking -- a double parallel solid line may be crossed to make a left or U-turn, or turn into or out of a driveway or private road [CVC 21460] -- a two-way left-turn lane may only be used to prepare for and make a left turn or permitted U-turn from or into a highway; a vehicle shall not be driven in that lane for more than 200 feet [CVC 21460.5(c)] -- a _pair_ of double parallel solid lines may not be crossed [CVC 21651(a)] -- a U-turn can be made wherever a left turn can be made on a divided highway [CVC 21651(a)(2)], although see references to 22102-3 below -- notwithstanding the prima facie speed limits, a vehicle driven at less than the normal speed of traffic must be driven in the right-hand lane except when passing or preparing for a left turn [CVC 21654] -- motorcycles can make use of high occupancy lanes unless explicitly prohibited by traffic control devices [CVC 21655.5] -- the descending vehicle shall yield to the ascending vehicle on a grade if the roadway is of insufficient width for both [CVC 21661] -- when preparing to turn, you must drive into a bicycle lane, if one, no more than 200 feet from the intersection [CVC 21717] -- pedestrians have right-of-way in crosswalks, but pedestrians shall not walk or run into the path of a vehicle [CVC 21950] -- right turns must be made into the rightmost lane except when turning from a terminating highway with three or more lanes or from a one-way highway at an intersection [CVC 22100(a)] -- left turns may be made into any available lane [CVC 22100(b)] -- U-turns must be made from the two-way left turn lane, if one, or leftmost lane otherwise [CVC 22100.5, 22102] -- U-turns are prohibited in a business district except at intersections or through openings in a divided roadway [CVC 22102] -- U-turns are permitted in a residential district only if no vehicle approaching is closer than 200 feet or where protected by sign or signal [CVC 22103] -- turn signals are required for turns and lane changes which may affect any other vehicle [CVC 22107] -- signals are required during the last 100 feet before turning [CVC 22018] -- vehicles shall be stopped or parked, where permitted, with the right-hand wheels within 18 inches of the right-hand curb; if no curbs, right-hand parallel parking is required unless otherwise indicated [CVC 22502(a)] -- it is unlawful to drive a vehicle while under the influence of an alcoholic beverage or any drug [CVC 23152(a)] -- it is unlawful for any person who has 0.08 percent or more, by weight, of alcohol in his or her blood to drive a vehicle [CVC 23152(b)] -- During darkness, lights shall not project glaring rays into the eyes of oncoming drivers when approaching within 500 feet. The use of low beams shall be deemed to avoid glare regardless of road contour. Low beam headlamps shall be used when following another vehicle within 300 feet. In all cases, foglamps and/or auxiliary passing lamps may be used with low beams if they are aimed so as to avoid projecting glaring rays into the eyes of oncoming drivers. [CVC 24403-9] -- The operator of a private motor vehicle is responsible for the use of seat belts by him/herself and all passengers 4 years of age or over [CVC 27315(d)]; in addition, passengers 16 years of age or over are responsible for their own seat belt use [CVC 27315(e)]. The fine for not wearing a seat belt is $20 for the first offense and $50 thereafter [CVC 27315(h)]. from sharen@iscnvx.lmsc.lockheed.com (Sharen A. Rund): Effective 1 Jan 1993, you can be stopped and ticketed for _not_ wearing your seat belt - currently, you can only be ticketed if the officer stopped you for another infraction, then noticed that you were not wearing your seatbelt. -- a passenger seat restraint must be used for children under 4 [CVC 27360] -- there doesn't appear to be a law giving right-of-way to either party in a merge onto a freeway, although the Spring 1991 DMV California Driver Handbook states "Freeway traffic has the right of way." [p. 48]. -- there is no law specifically prohibiting a lane change in the middle of an intersecting, see FAQ below on that -- there appears to be no maximum permitted number of lane changes per mile 5.What is the grace period for getting a driver's license after establishing residency in California? What is the grace period for vehicle registration? The grace period for a driver's licenses is 10 days unless you are employed for the purpose of driving, in which case there is no grace period [CVC 12505]. Application for vehicle registration is required within 20 days [CVC 4152.5]. 6.Is it legal to change lanes in the middle of an intersection? from chucko@kronos.arc.nasa.gov (Chuck Fry) on 25 Mar 1993: There is no section in the CVC specifically outlawing a lane change in the middle of an intersection. HOWEVER, many revenue ... uh, law officers will ticket you under the blanket section generally known as "Unsafe Lane Change" [CVC 21658(a)]. 7.How much are the gasoline taxes in CA? 14.1 cents Federal tax + 17.0 cents State tax + sales tax (up to 7.75 percent) 8.Are there special license plates of Yosemite's Tunnel View? from dlee@cs.ucla.edu (David Lee) on 20 Dec 92 For those of you who are interested, the Yosemite Fund is working through the DMV to create a special license plate with of a four-color design of Yosemite's Tunnel View. The plate will be available to California drivers for $50 plus their standard car registration fee. [According to the latest CSAA Motorland magazine, the additional cost is $40 after the first year. Much of the fee is tax deductible since it is going to non-profit groups.] The proceeds will be divided equally between the Yosemite Fund (which supports preservation and restoration of the park) and the California Environmental License Plate Fund. The money raised by the Yosemite Fund can only be used for preservation and restoration in Yosemite National Park, not for Fund overhead and administrative expenses, nor park operations. The Yosemite Fund has already received 2000 applications for the new plate and must collect 5000 before the DMV will begin processing. Given the current demand, the Fund expects that plates will be available by mid-1993. If you'd like to get an application for plates, contact the Yosemite Fund at (415) 434-1782 or The Yosemite Fund 155 Montgomery Street, Suite 1104 San Francisco, California 94104 9.How much insurance must a driver carry? from the Spring 1991 DMV California Driver Handbook: California's COMPULSORY FINANCIAL RESPONSIBILITY LAW requires every DRIVER and OWNER of a motor vehicle to maintain financial responsibility. There are four forms of financial responsibility: o Coverage by a motor vehicle liability insurance policy [of at least $15,000/30,000/5,000]. o A deposit of $35,000 with DMV. o A bond for the same amount (although generally bonds are unavailable). o DMV approved self-insurance. 10.Do insurance companies have to be licensed in CA? How can I tell if one is? from ostubble@agsm.ucla.edu (Otha Stubblefield III) on Oct 24 1992: Today's Los Angeles Times (10/23/92) carries an article on unlicensed insurers in its business section on page D1. This article does not apply solely to car insurance. Summary: The unlicensed insurance business is booming in California, with sales increasing by a factor of 30 since 1988. However, complaints have also increased by a factor of 100. Many consumers are finding that they have been paying claims to nothing more than a PO Box operation, and it is almost impossible to have a claim processed, especially if the company has surreptitiously folded. Insurers using state-licensed agencies are protected from insolvency by a fund. Also, the state has no power over unlicensed companies, that are often found to be based outside of the U.S. State law prohibits unlicensed insurers from selling in the state, unless the policyholder cannot find similar coverage from a licensed carrier. Only certain brokers (surplus-line carriers) are authorized by the state to sell out-of-state policies, and that those brokers should be checking these companies solvency. The State does acknowledge, though, that some people are not checking due to negligence or that they just don't care. You can find out if a certain carrier is ok by calling the Ca Insurance Consumer line at 800-927-HELP. End Summary: The article does not mention the penalties for using one of these companies, namely suspension of your license if you are found to be using one for the financial responsibility requirement (liability insurance). The state and DMV will consider you uninsured for the period that you were using them. They also do not mention that a companies' status (licensed to unlicensed) may change without notification to the consumer. 11.Can my insurer legally ask me for my roommates' names and license numbers? from billk@cats.ucsc.edu (Bill Karwin) on 18 Mar 1993: I called 1-800-927-HELP and the answer is yes, the insurance company does have a right to ask for the id's of the housemates if they are to be occasional drivers. The only alternative is to exclude these housemates from coverage, by providing their names (not their driver's license #). 12.What are some locations of speed and carpool lane enforcement traps? entry format: zone, city or area, road, posted speed, submitter zones: Bay area Central Valley LA metro N CA rural S CA rural San Diego metro Certain fields omitted where not applicable. A ? indicates missing data. Direction before the road indicates submitter specified that direction of travel as the speed trap. If you would like to add to or correct the speed traps list, please (originally compiled by stevea@locus.com) (if you would like to maintain this list, please Reply!) send entries in the format you see here. Please tell me if you wish to remain anonymous. If you don't tell me, I will list you as a submitter. Bay Area, Santa Clara, E Montague @ Lafayette, 45, woolsey Bay area, Cor?elia, I-80 near where it meets I-680, 55, muir Bay area, Fremont, Grimmer Blvd near Blacow Rd--no speed limit sign, 35, marcb Bay area, Fremont, Mission Blvd and Nursery Ave, 50, marcb Bay area, Fremont, Paseo Padre near Covington Dr, 30, marcb Bay area, Fremont, Paseo Padre Pkwy near Darwin Dr, 30, marcb Bay area, Fremont, 5 Corners area (Fremont/Washington/Union etc.), 25/35, marcb Bay area, Los Gatos, N Hwy 17 Summit Rd to Hwy 9, 50, marcb Bay area, Milpitas, Milpitas Blvd S of Jacklin Rd, ??, owen Bay area, Mtn View, Easy St access ramp from Central Expwy to CA 85, 25, Anon. Bay area, Mtn View, US 101 north at CA 85, 55 (CHP hides under bridge), Anon. Bay area, Mtn View, US 101 north of Moffett Field/Castro overpass, 55 (CHP hides way off road), jet Bay area, Oakland, Mandela Pkwy (Cypress Blvd), 35, Anon. Bay area, Oyster Point, US 101 between SF Airport & Candlestick, 55, lstowell Bay area, Palo Alto or M. View?, San Antonio Rd by Sun PAL-1 building, 35, owen Bay area, Palo Alto, Alma, 25/35 or 30?, owen Bay area, Palo Alto, Page Mill Rd, 35, Anon. Bay area, Pinole, I-80, 55, owen Bay area, Redwood City, I-280 @ Farm Hill Road exit ramp, 30?, Anon. Bay area, San Carlos/Belmont/San Mateo, I-280 @ Hwy 92, 55, lstowell Bay area, San Jose, I-880 @ US 101 both directions, 55, Anon. Bay area, Santa Clara, Lawrence Expressway, 50, Anon. Bay area, Santa Clara, San Tomas Expressway, 45, Anon. Bay area, Santa Clara, San Tomas Expressway, 45, Anon. Bay area, Sausalito, US 101 over Waldo Grade, 55, Anon. Bay area, Sunnyvale, Central Expressway--recessed portion, 50, dhepner Bay area, Sunnyvale, Wolfe Road between Evelyn and I-280, 35, dhepner Bay area, Vallejo, I-80 just NE of Vallejo at top of hill, 55, muir Central Valley, Auburn area, I-80 between Auburn & Alta, 55, muir Central Valley, Bakersfield, I-5 near Bakersfield, 65, lstowell Central Valley, Davis, I-80 @ Davis I-80 business loop, 55, muir Central Valley, Los Banos area, I-5 near CA 152, 65, lstowell Central Valley, Sacramento, I-80 thru Davis-Sacramento moderately bad, 55, muir LA metro, Corona, CA 91, 55, mcgillis LA metro, Grapevine area, I-5, 55, lstowell LA metro, W of LAX, Vista Del Mar--Rosecrans to Culver Blvd, 35/40/45, stevea N CA Rural, , I-80 between Sacramento & Tahoe, 55, lstowell N CA rural, El Dorado Co., US 50 from Placerville to Sac. Co. line, 55, Anon. S CA Rural, Solvang, US 101, 55, lstowell S CA rural, King City, US 101 in King City, 55, raveling CARPOOL LANE ENFORCEMENT Bay area, Santa Clara Co, I-280 from Guadalupe Pwky to Foothill Expwy, , marcb Bay area, Menlo Park, 101-S btwn Marsh & Willow @ Rlrd. Overpass, , gary.cook Bay area, San Jose/Milpitas, Hwy 237 near Hwy 880, , owen & marcb Submitters: owen@netcom.com mcgillis@lefty.sdd.trw.com lstowell@pyrnova.pyramid.com dhepner@hpcuhc.cup.hp.com marcb@ecst.csuchico.edu stevea@locus.com raveling@unify.com gary.cook@corp.sun.com muir@csi.com woolsey@folderol.uucp jet@nas.nasa.gov 13.Are radar detectors illegal in CA, or just not popular for some reason? from chucko@kronos.arc.nasa.gov (Chuck Fry) on 30 Jul 92: They're perfectly legal. I think it's a combination of factors that keeps their popularity down. First, there seems to be a mistaken impression that the CHP is not permitted to use radar. This is false; although for years the Legislature shot down funding for radar equipment, local jurisdictions have always been free to provide gear to the CHP for local trouble spots, and I believe the CHP now has funding to buy a limited number of radar units of their own. And remember that local police and sheriff's deputies have never been reluctant to use radar. Second is the fact that radar is essentially useless in heavy freeway traffic, because there's no way to pinpoint one violator. And at rush hour, much of this traffic doesn't ever see the speed limit anyway. Third, I just don't think Californians have as much of an adversarial relationship with police as residents of other states do. The CHP by and large plays fair, and as a result most drivers here seem to feel they deserved a ticket if they got caught. I carry a radar detector and make frequent use of it, especially in known radar speed traps (e.g. most of Palo Alto especially Alma St. and Charleston, highway 17 through the mountains). I highly recommend a good radar detector to anyone who drives, whether your foot is made of lead or feathers, since most urban speed limits in California are set well below the 85th percentile speed and are thus de facto speed traps. 14.Do I have to have my driver's license with me when driving? If you get hauled in for a traffic violation, yes. A licensee must display it to a magistrate or judge upon request if brought before them for any traffic violation [CVC 12952]. A charge of failure to have your license in possession while driving is automatically dismissed if you produce it in court [CVC 12951(a)], as long as it was valid, etc. After two such dismissals, the court has the option not to dismiss. So, you shouldn't make a habit of not carrying it while driving. 15.Do I have to have any identification with me while not driving? Not if you don't break any laws. If you do break the law and don't want to sit in jail, it helps to have positive identification: "Whenever any person is arrested by a peace officer for a misdemeanor, that person shall be released [...] unless [...] [t]he person could not provide satisfactory evidence of personal identification" [Penal Code 853.6(i)(5)]. Note that most traffic tickets are not for misdemeanors but infractions, and "all provisions of law relative to misdemeanors shall apply to infractions" [Penal Code 19d]. 16.Am I entitled to a jury trial for my traffic ticket? Can I have counsel appointed at public expense? Can I be sent to prison if found guilty? No, no, and no [Penal Code 19c]. This only applies to infractions, of course. You get the book thrown at you, and all resulting rights and privileges, for misdemeanors and felonies whether or not committed behind the wheel. 17.Can a local cop cite you for speeding on an Interstate? Yes. For felonies and public offenses (which include infractions and misdemeanors) in the presence of the officer, or actions that could cause great bodily harm or death, the sworn POST (Peace Officers Standard Training) certified officer is empowered in the entire state [see Penal Code 830, 832, 1523]. Furthermore, the authority of sheriffs, police officers, etc., extends to any place in the state as to any public offense committed (or believed to have been committed) within the political subdivision which employs him or her [Penal Code 830.1]. 18.Can a CHP officer write a ticket for an offense not committed on a freeway? Yes [Penal Code 830.2(a)]. 19.What's the difference between the CA Highway Patrol and the CA State Police? The primary duty of CHP officers is enforcement of the vehicle code [Penal Code 830.2(a)]. The primary duty of CSP officers is to "provide police services for the protection of state officers, and the protection of state properties and occupants thereof" [Penal Code 830.2(b)]. 20.What information is in the driver license mag stripe? (RISKS appears on Usenet as comp.risks. See any issue for information on accessing RISKS DIGEST archives.) In RISKS DIGEST 11.03, hibbert@xanadu.UUCP (Chris Hibbert) wrote: There will be a magnetic stripe on the back with three tracks encoded on it. The middle track will be encoded in the same format as your credit cards, and will therefore be readable with ordinary commercial readers. This track will only contain 40 bytes of information, and will only contain the name, driver's license number, and expiration date. The other two tracks will be in a format that is incompatible with current commercial readers, and will contain the rest of the information that is printed on the front: birth date, eye color, hair color, height, weight etc. The picture on the front will be an ordinary photo [color], with a hologram of the state and DMV seals to make counterfeiting harder. There will apparently be a different version for people under the legal drinking age: the picture will be on the right instead of the left. In RISKS DIGEST 11.63, atn@cory.Berkeley.EDU (Alan Nishioka) wrote: Just for fun, I thought I'd try to read it. I had previously been able to read bank cards (with help from sci.electronics). Bank Cards -- conform to ANSI/ISO 7810-1985 ($10) Track 1: 6 bit word with 1 bit parity. LSB first. code offset 32 below ASCII code. Track 2: 4 bit word with 1 bit parity. LSB first. Numbers only. Driver's License -- Track 1: 6 bit word with no parity. Otherwise same as Bank Card. Track 2: Same as Bank Card. Track 3: ? California Driver's License: Track 2: (low density) 8 unidentified digits License Number Separator Expiration Date (YYMM) Separator Date of Birth (YYYYMMDD) Track 1: (High density) Name Address City Track 3: (High density. Can't reposition read head. ) It looks like there is space for a 58 character name [...], a 29 character address and a 13 character city. I suspect the third track contains the rest of the information from the front of the license. 21.How often can I be cited for expired vehicle registration? And is it always or never a fix-it ticket? from David_Carl_Ehlert@cup.portal.com on 3 Mar 1992: If I had gotten a ticket for an expired registration, I would have gotten it taken care of very quickly. Here is an explanation I got from a police officer whom I asked about expired registration: He usually allows 1-2 months of padding before he pulls someone over. He will write the ticket "ALMOST" all of the time because the first time is usually a fix-it. If he pulls someone over, and they already received a ticket for the expired registration within 5-7 days of the current day, he will usually let it go. If it is longer than 5-7 days, he will always write the ticket and not make it a fix-it. Fix-it tickets are always at the discretion of the officer. As for the officer stating that you had 6 weeks, there is nothing in the CVC that states that. Once your registration expires, you should expect receiving a ticket. Your registration is due the day the one from the previous year expires. 22.Does my vehicle have to be registered, even if I don't drive it? from dhepner@cup.hp.com (Dan Hepner) on 23 Dec 1992: Normal registration fees are due if: The vehicle is parked on a public street, or at any public parking facility once during the year in question; the vehicle is towed once on a public street during that year; and of course, if the vehicle is driven. One-trip permits allow for moving a vehicle from one storage place to another, or to a repair facility, but doing either without such a permit incurs the full fee. Off-highway fees (usually far less than normal registration) are due if the vehicle is operated, or transported, off-highway within the state of CA. Once due, these fees do not go away with the next year; rather the opposite occurs, the fees are delinquent, implying a penalty. The longer they remain delinquent, the greater the penalty. Each year adds new fees, and a new penalty. As bad as could be imagined. There does appear the _option_ of waiving the fees and penalties to new owners, but CVC 9562 suggests that this should not be expected if one buys a vehicle with out-of-date plates. "Certificates of non-operation", which claim that the vehicle never incurred the fee, are commonly used in circumstances which would imply a massive liability, but one must be signed by each of the previous owners. 23.How much will it cost to import to CA and register an out-of-state vehicle? from aclark@netcom.com (Al Clark), chucko@kronos.arc.nasa.gov (Chuck Fry), dhepner@cup.hp.com (Dan Hepner), and levine@ics.uci.edu (David Levine) in Jan 1993: Assuming it meets Federal emission standards, you can register it in CA, but you need to pay: 1) Use tax (in lieu of sales tax) for it's value, unless you did not buy it for use in CA. If you owned the car for more than 90 days before you brought it into CA, you are okay. The use tax is reduced by the amount of sales tax paid to the another state, if owned for 90 days or less. The stated purpose is to reduce any advantage one might have in buying a car in some other state "for use in California". 2) Smog impact fee, a one time fee of $300. If the car meets CA emission standards for the year of manufacture, this is not applicable. It says what emission standards it was manufactured to meet on a sticker under the hood. 3) You'll need a smog check and certificate for most vehicles. Figure around $40 for this. 4) Normal CA registration costs. Part of this is based on car's value. This like a personal property tax, and this part is a deduction on your Federal Income Tax. For late model vehicles, the smog check is usually not a problem. First, there isn't that much difference between "49-state" emission standards and California's. Second, the smog checkers recognize that it's a 49-state car and test it to the appropriate standard. Third, any well-maintained car should have no problem passing even the stiffer California standards. A modern catalytic converter-equipped car should be putting out air that's almost as clean as it's taking in. It's hard to generalize for older vehicles, such as those without catalytic converters. The 49-state and CA emissions standards were quite different way back when, and it's not unusual to be required to retrofit such items as closed PCV systems and air pumps. You don't have to bring a 49-state car up to CA tailpipe standards. The stated purpose of the smog impact fee ($300) law is to fund checking up to see if this was once a California car which was taken out of state and is now being brought back in as a 49-state car not in compliance with CA's standards. Many cars are "50-state cars", and have an emissions sticker which claims that they meet the CA emissions standards, even if bought in Maine. These cars are not subject to the $300 fee. What you really do have to watch out for is removed smog control parts which were perhaps legal, or quasi-legal to remove some places so long as the emissions met local standards. In CA (and in many other states as well) the smog test includes a visual equipment check: certain emissions-control components must be installed and functional, regardless of the outcome of the tailpipe test. This is because the tailpipe test is under very restricted conditions (at idle and at one steady-state speed with no load) and doesn't check all of the emissions species (just unburned hydrocarbons and carbon monoxide). In contrast, the vehicle manufacturer had to demonstrate compliance over a much more representative driving cycle, had to meet standards for oxides of nitrogen and evaporative emissions, and had to meet 50K or 100K mile durability requirements. More than one out-of-state vehicle has met the recommendation "take it to Nevada and sell it" when the cost of replacing such parts exceeded the value of the car. 24.Do out-of-state tickets appear on your California DMV printout, and can insurance companies can find this info out if they don't? from gordon@TASVAX.NSWSES.NAVY.MIL (Gordon C. Zaft) on 15 Nov 1991: Well, it happened to me! I had two tickets from Texas and one from New Mexico show up on DMV record last year (they were from almost 3 years ago! I don't know why the delay) and my insurance went up $200! from rezal@leland.Stanford.EDU (Rezal Adzly Abdul Rahman) on 19 Nov 1991: I friend of mine got a speeding ticket in Texas, two years ago, and when he recently went to get a DMV printout for the insurance company, it was there! from wab@worf.Rational.COM (Bill Baker) on 23 Nov 1991: This is called "reciprocity". Basically what it means is that if you don't pay an out of state ticket, the DMV of the state issuing your license agrees to put it on your record and charge you for it when you go to renew your license, the idea being that the other state will do the same for tickets issued to their drivers in your home state. I've had a lot of experience with this. Most states do not have reciprocity with every other state. Most states usually have reciprocity with neighbor states. However, home states can be pretty lax about applying out of state penalties. I had my Washington license "revoked" by California, Oregon, and North Dakota, but the Wash. DMV renewed my license without complaint (as long as I paid those in state tickets). I also once tried to skip out on a bunch of Wash. tickets by applying for a new license in Oregon. I told the clerk I'd never had a license, but when he ran my ID on the computer he came back with a list of my many outstanding Washington tickets. Then he gave me a copy of the written test and told me to return it to him when I was done. I mean, he *knew* I was lying but apparently that didn't bar you from getting an Oregon license. Sometimes state rivalries can have weird fallout. You can probably find out from DMV what states California has reciprocity agreements with. Nevada is almost certainly one of them. I'm not familiar enough with CA DMV to know how seriously they enforce reciprocity. However, whether or not your home state cares about out of state tickets, the state issuing the ticket never forgets. If you get stopped in that state again, they will almost certainly haul you to the local hoosegow and keep you there until you pay the massive fine. Insurance companies are a much bigger menace. They get data from everywhere. It's very hard to hide tickets from them. However, most states can't release a record of a ticket until the ticket is actually paid, because you aren't officially guilty until you've paid the ticket or had a "trial". My insurance company never knew about my out of state tickets as long as I didn't pay them. Of course, had I been caught a second time in one of those states and been "convicted" of driving on a "revoked" license with unpaid tickets, my insurance rating would have become terminal immediately. The bottom line is, if you're caught speeding next door, you'd better pay it because there's a good chance you'll get stopped again in that state, which would be a disaster. If you're caught out in Podunk State (say North Dakota) and you don't expect to be back more than once or twice in your lifetime, you can take a chance on skipping out on the ticket. Remember, though, that the rural states are wise to this. They usually direct you to drive to the next state patrol office and pay the ticket immediately. They may follow you to make sure you do. from optilink!walsh@uunet.uu.NET (Mark Walsh) on 16 Dec 91: I got screwed by the city of Berkeley early last year. The police officer was very polite, and he said that the ticket was merely a fine like a parking ticket, and it would not go on my DMV record. Guess what? My insurance went up! When I talked to my agent, he said that their (Farmer's) computers talk to many local computers, and everybody shares info with everybody else, and that the DMV was probably the only bureaucracy that did not know about the ticket. 25.Does the DMV find out about tickets received from Federal authorities? from tsu@cup.hp.com (Stanley Tsu) on 19 Feb 1993: OK, here's the scoop. I called the Denver Office of the US District Court (800/366-5245) and the woman I spoke to said that the Feds do not give traffic violation data to Cal DMV for speeding violations, provided that one pays the collateral in a timely manner. She said that if I wanted to contest the ticket she could set up a court appearance date over the phone. Protests in the Golden Gate National Regional Area (GGNRA) are handled at 450 Golden Gate Ave, San Fran. 26.Do tickets dismissed by traffic school attendance appear on my DMV record? from jordan@MooreNet.COM (Jordan Hayes) on 29 oct 1991: Here's the scoop. Note: this changed recently, and I'll note the differences between what's in effect now and what was before Jan 1, 1991. There are two versions of your DMV record, what I'll call the private one and the public one. The private one has all of your transactions, since the establishment of your bits in their computer. This is a "write-only" type of record. Nothing ever gets removed (except for incorrect information :-). The public record is the one that you can get for a fee, and the one that your insurance company can get. This has things dropped off after certain time limits that vary with the charge (for instance, DWI events stay longer). In addition, if you go to traffic school, moving violations do not get transferred to your "public" record, and you don't get the "points" involved added to your record -- get a certain number of points in a certain amount of time (4 in a year, 6 in 2 years, 8 in 3 years [CVC 12810.5]) and you can lose your license; you may have to check up on DMV to make sure that they received your of certificate of traffic school completion. The right time to do this is *before* your insurance comes up for renewal ... Starting January 1, 1991, if you get another moving violation within the first year after going to traffic school, the *original* violation gets moved from your private record to your public record (so that insurance companies can see it), but you don't get charged points for it. In addition, you are ineligible for traffic school, so you'll now have two convictions on your record. from Ed.Evans@f227.n103.z1.fidonet.org (Ed Evans) on 1 nov 1991: I've been told that if you go to traffic school, and if you get another moving violation within 18 months, then your original citation will appear on your DMV printout. This information has been denied by DMV personnel. However, Gov. Deukmejian signed a bill to this effect before he left office. Before he signed the bill, the policy was for the citation to reappear if the violator violated within 12 months. Going to traffic school is an admission of guilt. The violator's citation is not "forgiven" and it does not "disappear." It is "masked." This means that it is kept in an informal holding area (of a computer) forever. To wit: a violation within 18 months of attending traffic school causes the citation to become "unmasked" and it remains unmasked until it has been presented to the world for its 36 month tour of DMV abstract access. After 36 months, all citations are masked and do not reappear, except for PD's on request, courts, and the National Security Agency on request. This is important to know if you want to become a cop or need a top secret clearance. Otherwise, it'll probably never matter, once the citation is masked. There's a lot of folk wisdom passed out by traffic violator school instructors. I know, I'm one of them. from optilink!walsh@uunet.uu.NET (Mark Walsh) on 16 Dec 91: Lesson: make sure that your traffic school paperwork gets all of the way through the system. I went through the traffic school, and sent the paperwork in via certified mail, etc. A few months later, I was at the DMV, and found out that I had a warrant out for my arrest! My paperwork had fallen through the cracks. 27.Why can't I both argue my case in court and use traffic school to keep the points off my license if I lose? from J056600@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM (Tim Irvin) on 7 Apr 93: The only reason traffic school is even given as an option is to ease the burden on the courts. If you could get traffic school by taking the case to court, the county would have no incentive to even offer it as an option. It sucks, but they would eliminate the traffic school option before they would allow "ticket fighters" to go there, too. from cjkuo@symantec.com (Jimmy Kuo) on 26 Mar 1993: When convicted, you are at the mercy of the court, within legal guidelines. You may ask to go to traffic school and it may still be granted. But it is no longer a choice to be made by you rather it is now a choice the judge is to make. from gerhard@mikas.llnl.gov (Michael Gerhard) on 7 Apr 93: A friend of mine got a speeding ticket in Fremont. He tried to fight it (he WAS speeding) and after the officer testified, my friend took the stand and realized he wasn't going to win. Instead of providing a defense, he asked the judge if he could change his plea to guilty and take traffic school. The judge thought it a bit odd, asked the officer if he had any objections, and the allowed my friend to take traffic school. It may not be a legislated action that if you fight then no traffic school. In my friends case, it was the discretion of the judge. from dpassage@soda.berkeley.edu (David G. Paschich) on 7 Apr 93: Note that it's possible to end up having plead guilty with traffic school as your sentence and get the points on your record and everything. This is _different_ from when you sign up for traffic school before the arraignment, trial, or anything and don't get the points on your public record. 28.I've heard about "comedy traffic schools". Has anyone tried one of these? from sidney@apple.com (Sidney Markowitz) on 10 Jun 1993: I had such a good time with Improv, The Comedy Club Presents Traffic School last weekend, that I wanted to recommend it to the net. The instructor was Steve Verret. He claims to have been the most requested traffic school instructor in California five years in a row, and he was good enough that I can easily believe that. Besides being a lot of fun and two dollars cheaper than any other school I called ($30 vs $32), he handed out to every student a free pass for two to Improv Comedy Club in San Francisco. The state lets you satisfy the traffic school requirement at any licensed traffic school in the state, though some counties only recognize schools on lists that they publish. Improv, The Comedy Club Presents Traffic School has classes in several counties. I don't know which locations Steve Verret teaches in addition to Santa Cruz where I took the class, but it would be worth asking for him. Their number is 800-775-5233. Disclaimer: I have no affiliation with Improv, The Comedy Club Presents Traffic School, other than as a satisfied graduate. 29.When you see a sign "Litter removal next two miles by organization XXX", what exactly does XXX do? from rog@Ingres.COM (Roger Taranto) on 18 Jul 1992: They are required by CalTrans to clean up their section of the highway at least quarterly. They are told to park near the highway (on some side street or something, not on the side of the highway), and they have to give CalTrans and the CHP notice a certain amount of time before they go out there. They are given safety instructions before they go. Finally, there are two types of people you see picking up litter along the side of the road: those with *white* hats are part of some group doing litter removal; those with *orange* hats are doing "community service", e.g., someone who got sentenced to do community service. Alternatively, sponsors can hire cleanup crews. 30.What are some recommended readings? (originally compiled by stevea@locus.com; some updates from a post by pvmason@cco.caltech.edu (Peter V. Mason) on 2 Oct 92) (if you would like to maintain this list, please Reply!) Beating the Radar Rap, Dale Smith & John Tomerlin, Bonus Books, Chicago, 1990, $15. How to fight a radar-clocked speeding ticket in court. (Annotation summarized from Car & Driver, 2/91.) (stevea) Don't Get Taken Every Time, Remar Sutton, Penguin, city?, 1991?, ~$8?. This book pulls no punches in its expose' of car dealers' tactics on car buyers. Fictional examples offer lessons. Also a step by step guide for buying cars. (stevea) Fight Your Ticket, David W. Brown, Nolo Press, Berkeley, 1991, $21.95, 800-992-6656. I found it under "traffic violations" on the library index computer. Dewey number is 345.0247 BRO 1991, ISBN 0-87337-132-1. It's obviously specialized to California, but there are some pretty good general topics on how to act when stopped (polite, non-committal, don't make the cop's job easy by admitting anything). Check out all the facts you can and write down the entire incident for use in court. One of his claims is that the cop is trained to decide whether to give you a ticket before he gets out of his car, so fawning or apologizing will get you nowhere. Another point is to read the vehicle code very carefully, because each code section requires that several elements be established to convict you. Brown also discusses out-of-state tickets and lists the states that are in the Driver's License Compact and cross report-violations. Incidentally, Brown verifies that you can't be convicted of a speed violation using radar measurement unless there has been a survey within 5 years. (pvmason) The Safe Motorist's Guide to Speedtraps, John Tomerlin & Dru Whitledge, Bonus Books, Chicago, 1991, $24 "RADAR" members, $31 nonmembers, 800-448-5170, also available in some bookstores. For the 50 states: Hwy Patrol radio frequencies, fines, ticket info exchanges with other states, speed traps, more. (Annotation summarized from Car & Driver, 3/92.) (stevea) A Speeder's Guide to Avoiding Tickets, Sgt. James M. Eagan, Avon Books, New York, 1990, $5. How to avoid getting caught; what to do before, during, and after being pulled over. Mildly amusing and worth the price. (stevea) from bill@Celestial.COM (Bill Campbell) on 28 Sep 1992: The Ticket Book, Rod Dornsife, ISBN 0-9601950-1-7, published by The Ticket Book, Inc., PO Box 1087, La Jolla, Ca 92038 I don't know whether this is still available. I got mine when it was handed out to all the participants in the 1979 Cannonball Baker Sea-to-Shining-Sea Memorial Trophy Dash (the last real Cannonball). Traffic Court - How to Win, by Atty. James Glass, Allenby Press, Arcadia, CA, 1988. Claims to be nationwide in application. (pvmason) How to Win in Traffic Court: The Non-Lawyers Guide to Successfully Defending Traffic Violations, by Phil Bello, J.D., Major Market Books, Gibbsboro, NJ, 1989. Also claims to be nationwide. (pvmason) from duehara@yosemite.atmos.ucla.edu (Dana Uehara) on 16 Feb 93: _Talk Your Way Out Of A Traffic Ticket_. (Not sure who the author is -- something [Jim?] Kelley). Unfortunately I don't have the book with me, so I have no other information, but I do know it's available in paperback. It should be useful since the person who wrote it is (was?) a CHP patrol officer. Synopsis: Highlights what to and what *not* to do/say if you get pulled over. Also outlines what types of recourse you have if you do get ticketed, under what conditions you can request Traffic School, and also gives some guidelines as to testing yourself as to whether or not you can (or *should*) be driving, particularly if you've had too much to drink. 31.What are some useful phone numbers and/or addresses? (Some of these apply only to particular areas of the state. The purpose of this information is to show the kinds of services that are available; consult your phone directory for the local corresponding agency. Additions to this list are welcome, of course.) 800-427-ROAD (try 415-557-3755 from out-of-state) CalTrans' highway information number: Call from a touch-tone phone, punch in the highway number, and a recording will tell you about current and scheduled closures, chain requirements, and traffic restrictions. As far as I can tell, it gets updated as whenever conditions change. Drive safely! --from ajh@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Alan Hu) on 10 dec 92 714-665-6970 Orange County Household Hazardous Waste Hotline, recording 714-744-0516 for information on sites that accept waste motor oil, antifreeze, etc., from households of Orange County residents 800-EXHAUST Bay Area Air Quality Management District smoking vehicle program complaint line 800-CUT-SMOG South Coast Air Quality Management District to report smoke-emitting (for longer than 10 seconds) vehicle (note license number, make, model, date, time, and location). The AQMD doesn't ask for your name. They mail the vehicle owner a letter stating that their vehicle was observed smoking and explaining the CA exhaust emissions laws. They are asked to repond to the letter. The Street Smart column of the LA times on 15 March, 1993, reports that according to AQMD spokesperson Paula Levy, there is a 25 percent of letter recipients reply that they have repaired their vehicle. 800-745-SAFE "Safety Belt Safe USA", Inglewood, CA, a non-profit group To report a driver having children in the vehicle who were not retrained by seat belts or within a car seat, call the 800 number. They will give you a form to fill out to report the offending motorist. Send the form back to them and they will get it to the Highway Patrol, who will then send the registered owner a very stern letter of warning. -- from nancy@jpl-devvax.jpl.nasa.gov (Nancy Feagans) on 18 may 1993 800-927-HELP CA Insurance Consumer Line (see question about insurers having to be licensed in CA) 714-724-2000 CalTrans, Orange County: to report potholes 714-754-5334 Costa Mesa Transportation Services: to report malfunctioning traffic signals (note place, time, and situation) 213-623-6533 for info on handling LA City parking ticket by mail DMV Revenue Services, Mail Station D148, 2415 1st Ave., Sacramento, CA 95818 to report expired tags, or out-of-state plates that have overstayed their welcome 32.Is window tinting legal? What about pull-down blinds and window stickers? from john@storcon.com (John Hunley) on 14 Dec and 15 Dec 1992: The applicable paragraph in the CVC is 26708. It's too long to quote here in full, but basically what it says (disclaimer: this is my own personal interpretation, I'm not a lawyer, don't come running to me if you get nailed) is that you may not operate with "any object or material placed, displayed, installed, affixed, or applied upon the windshield or side or rear windows." Side windows to the rear of the driver are exempted (26708b4), as is the rear window IF you have mirrors on both left- and right-hand sides (26708b8). Tinted safety glass is permitted by 26708.5b. Therefore, the basic distinction is whether you have tinted glass or tinting that is stuck onto the glass. There's no mention of "factory" vs. "third party." A third-party tint job would be legal if it was done by replacing the windshield and front windows with tinted safety glass, rather than by sticking or painting something onto the existing glass. An interesting side note is that 26708a3 specifically includes snow and ice as an obstruction covered under 26708. So you can get a ticket for 26708 for having snow or ice on your windshield or front windows, as well as stick-on tinting. Same violation. The pull-down blinds are permitted ONLY if the driver or front passenger has a signed document from a physician or optometrist (CVC 26708b10) stating that they are required due to a medical or visual condition. CVC 26708b3 allows "signs, stickers, or other materials which are displayed in a 7-inch square in the lower corner of the windshield ... [or] ... rear window farthest removed from the driver, or ... in a 5-inch square in the lower corner of the windshield nearest the driver." Also exempted are such things as rearview mirrors, rear window wiper hardware, rear trunk lid handles and hinges, destination signs on busses, magnifying or wide-angle lenses on the passenger side window of a truck, and of course the standard equipment sun visors. 33.Do I need chains in the mountains if I have snow tires? If so, what kind? from ajh@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Alan Hu) on 10 dec 1992: According to my memory according to a pamphlet put out by CalTrans a few years ago, chain requirements come in three varieties: 1. Chains required. Four-wheel drive or snow tires OK. 2. Chains required. Four-wheel drive with snow tires OK. 3. Chains required on all vehicles, including four-wheel drive. Usually you'll see #2, although I've seen #1 before. The pamphlet said they'll usually close the road instead of doing a #3. Tires marked M/S or M+S qualify as snow tires [CVC 27459]. Chains must be installed on at least two drive wheels [CVC 27459]. The chain requirements used to surprise my non-CA friends. If you haven't seen them enforced yet: You'll see the Chains Required sign. Lots of people will be pulled off the side of the road putting on chains. Various people wander from car to car offering to put your chains on for a fee (but they're not allowed to sell chains). Farther down the road, a checkpoint checks EVERY car that tries to continue. If you don't meet the chain requirement, they turn you back. In short, if you're driving in the Sierra, they're very good to have. Also, there's a toll-free CalTrans road condition number [see the phone numbers question in this FAQ]. from dhepner@cup.hp.com (Dan Hepner) on 9 dec 1992: Most people could indeed drive the passes when snow covered without chains, IF the road were more or less clear of other cars. But in stop-n-go driving, common in the Sierra during a snow storm, required chains are what prevents total chaos. -- And, if so, what would y'all recommend? For infrequent usage, such as having the bad luck to hit snow on a Sierra pass during a drought, consider the cable type. For frequent usage, or maximum effect, use the real thing. Watch out for oversized tires, or even maximally sized tires on front wheel drive. The chains can extend wide enough to hit other front-end components. Cables mitigate this problem. 34.What's the net.recommendation for motorcycle insurance? gwu@tcs.com (George Wu) received the following replies to this request of 30 sep 1991: Having just purchased my first bike (Yamaha SRX 250), I now need to get insurance. Since it's not worth that much, I'm just going to get liability. CSAA (California AAA) must think motorcycles are dangerous or something, since they won't insure it. from abp@goedel.arc.nasa.gov (Andy Philips): McGraw Hill Insurance Services: 415-780-4841 Call Melody x3021 and tell her I sent you, she may or may not remember me. from georgeb@zimmer.CSUFresno.EDU (George Barbary): The best deal I got on insurance was from Mcgraw-Hill. There is a startup fee of approximately $40. Then the premium was $86 for six months. I had minimum coverage. This rate is for Fresno. It may vary in the Bay area. from chaney@leland.stanford.edu (Ken chaney): State Farm is reputed to have "best" rates for single males under 30. I heard this from a AAA agent, who gave me a quote. Don't know why they won't give you one. Perhaps I'm mistaken and the quote was for my car. At any rate, it was higher than the premium I pay State Farm (single male age 25). from karen@brahms.AMD.COM (Karen Black): I've insured my SR250 (and GB500) through State Farm. When I started, I was paying about $250 for 100/50/100, uninsured motorist, comp and collision. Now I'm in State Farm Mutual and paying $160 for liability and uninsured motorist. I've been very happy with State Farm. from tamecat@yoda.eecs.wsu.edu (Walter Dryfoos): I'd suggest that you give Coupin Insurance on Piedmont Avenue in Oakland a call. They always found me the best deal on my bikes. They're an independent agent, so they have lots of options. from tiene@apple.com (Kevin Tiene): I am about to buy a bike (Honda Hawk GT 650) and got the same response from CSAA. They recommended getting insurance through the dealer. from brad (Brad Whitaker): Marketing Direct (800) 729-2537 MotorCycle Insurance from gbuzsaki@us.oracle.com (George Buzsaki): Mike Felder Insurance (1-800-7-CYCLES) He specializes in motorcycle liability insurance and is a good guy to boot. from doning@ocf.Berkeley.EDU (Donald Ng): I got the lowest quotes for insurance from Mike Felder in Concord. He's at 1-800-7-CYCLES, and gives discounts for taking the MSF courses. from gwu@tcs.com (George Wu): Based on what the net recommended, I called Mike Felder and McGraw Insurance. For just liability, Felder quoted $157. McGraw quoted $87. I went with McGraw, naturally. Personally, I think the $157 is an error. I definitely stated I wanted liability only, but I bet that's not what he quoted. After I passed the MSF course, I called McGraw Insurance back to try and get a discount. They don't offer one for the MSF course. The only safety discount they offer is for "good drivers." One is a "good driver" if one has held an M1 license for at least three years and has zero or one points on his or her license. 35.What is a "CHiPs detector"? What's the complete story on CHP radios? from Chucko@charon.arc.nasa.gov (Chuck Fry): That's right. Many CHP cars are equipped with repeaters so that when the officers get out of their cars, their walkie-talkies need only reach the car instead of the base station. The CHiPs Detector (tm) takes advantage of the fact that the CHiPpies rarely turn off the repeater when they're IN the car. Note that the CHP may change this frequency at any time, although they're not likely to. The disadvantages are that you just know at least one CHiPpie is in the area, not how close, what they're doing, or whether they're after you; and there's no signal transmitted from the repeater when the base station is silent. So it's hardly foolproof. morris@grian.cps.altadena.ca.us (Mike Morris) posted on 12 oct 1991: The following info was compiled from several sources, none of which have 1st-hand knowledge of the new CHP radios, but what I have been able to put together seems to agree. So with that caveat, ... The older Motorola Micor mobile radios had "mobile extenders" by GE. These extenders were 1/4 watt transmitting units that repeated the audio from the 42mhz CHP mobile radio to 154.905mhz. The mobile extender time-sliced the channel to transmit for roughly 9/10 second and receive for 1/10 of a second to see if the officer was replying. Hence the "yakyakyak-chuff-yakyakyak- chuff-yakyakyak-chuff-..." sound of the repeated traffic on the 154mhz channel. There was a writeup of the single-channel time-slicing technique in a ham radio magazine back in the early 70s, and the technique has taken off tremendously. It has mostly been used to allow single-channel radio-to-telephone interconnects called simplex autopatches (because they use one channel - a "simplex" channel.) Anyway the mobile extender technique works very well, and allows the officer to use a relatively low power high-band hand-held to communicate with the dispatcher via the > 100w low-band mobile radio in his/her patrol car with very little trouble. A low-band hand-held would have to use a 6' antenna to be resonant, or a "rubber duckie" over a foot long. And the hand-held couldn't have enough RF power to reach the dispatch center in 99% of the state. Hence a 150mhz handheld (where a 18" antenna is the norm, and a "rubber duck" is < 9") and a mobile extender. A bit of history: The bid for mobile radios was won by Motorola around 10 years ago. The mobile extenders were an afterthought, and that bid/contract was won by GE. The user interface was a simple on/off switch, and the state radio shop people mounted it in the Motorola control head. It was a toggle switch labeled with a Dymo tape "repeat enable/disable" (or "extender on/off" or "portable on/off"). The average officer soon discovered that leaving the extender switch in the "on" position worked just fine. They turned off the hand-held to shut off the "repeater", not realizing that the mobile side of the extender was still on. Probably 99% of the CHP officers left it on for the entire shift. With the almost constant activity on the CHP dispatch channels, this 154.905mhz vehicle transmitter behaved like a 1/4w beacon, providing between 1/4 to 1 mile notification of the location of a patrol car. Now the spoiler: The CHP is replacing (has replaced here in my area) _all_ of their Motorola Micor/GE extender radio packages. The new radios are all GE, with CHP-designed control groups. (The state Red Cross got 90% of the radios for the 47.42 - 47.62 freqs. A few of them went to other state agencies, like the Office of Emergency Services). The 1991 Southern California edition of the "Police Call" frequency listing has a nice writeup on the CHP-designed control groups, as I remember. They even got 90% of it right. The new design forces the officers to disable the extender when they are in the patrol car. Listening to 154.905 while mobile now just tells you where a CHP car is _stopped_, with the officer out of the car, as opposed to before when it would tell you where a stopped or a moving one was... Here is the frequency map of the CHP hand-helds as I have it. F1: 154.905 with the primary tone. (NOTE 1) F2: same 1st alternate tone F3: same 2nd alternate tone F4: 154.920 (CLEMARS 1) - Base side of CLEMARS F5: 154.935 (CLEMARS 2) - Mobile/Portable CLEMARS F6: 156.075 (CALCORD) (NOTE 2) F7: 155.475 (CLEMARS 3 / NALEMARS) (NOTE 3) Abbreviations: CLEMARS: California Law Enforcement Mutual Radio System. CALCORD: California Coordination - a statewide "on-scene" channel NALEMARS: National Law Enforcement.... A federal version of CLEMARS. Note 1: With the old hand-helds (2 freqs - 154.905 and 154.920) there was no way that two units from different areas (i.e. different dispatch frequencies) could have their extenders operational at an out-of-vehicle scene -- when an officer transmitted, both mobiles would be brought up. the remainder of Note 1 explanation is from the post of scotto@ipars.cts.com (Scott O'Connell) on 14 oct 1991: The receiver of the extender has an attenuator making a low wattage HT usable for only a short distance (typically less than 50yds). To make sure there is only one extender being used within close proximity each vehicle extender sends a short burst tone to see if others are active. If it is within range of another active extender it doesn't turn on at all. The HT is then using the other vehicle radio (the one that was already turned on). Now for the PL explanation. There are three channels on CHP HT's that relate directly to the extender. Channel 1 (also called PP or Person to Person) does not transmit any tone nor does it decode. It is meant for HT to HT use. Channel 2 has a subaudible tone on transmit allowing the officer to talk to dispatch. (ie, transmits on the input freq of the lowband radio) Channel 3 has a different subaudible tone on transmit allowing the officer to talk to other officers. (ie, transmits on the output of the lowband radio) All channels are carrier squelch on the receive so that PP can be heard regardless of other traffic. I hope this clears up why there are three 154.905 channels on the HT's. Note 2: 156.075 is also the Ship TX side of Marine channel 61 (paired with 160.675 Ship RX). I understand some re-thinking of the use of this frequency is going on. It seems to be pretty useless in coastal areas. Note 3: 155.475 I have been told that this channel has multiple PL tones. I have also been told that the CHP handheld is 10 freq - capable. Maybe this channel has multiple appearances like F1-F2-F3. More info is needed. Another rehash of the low band channels is in the works since LA County Sheriffs is moving to 800 or 900 mhz. The CHP has acquired all of the 39mhz LASO channels and is slowly moving to change all of the low band dispatch operation to full repeat. My sources do not know if the mobiles will be transmitting on 39mhz and listening on 42mhz or vice versa. It does not make much difference to the GE mobiles since they cover the full 30-50 mhz just fine (as opposed to the old Micors that covered 42mhz to 50mhz only. Does anybody have any info? 36.But aren't most citizens prohibited from using mobile radio scanners? from parnass@ihlpy.att.com (Bob Parnass, AJ9S) on 4 nov 91: Anyone interested in US state and federal laws relating to radio monitoring should check out Frank Terranella's "Listener's Lawbook." It is available for $9.95 (plus $2 UPS) from Grove Enterprises, 140 Dog Branch Road, Brasstown, NC 28902. I am not an attorney, but I have a 1989 issue of Frank's earlier work, "ANARC Guide to US Monitoring Laws," and will summarize from that book. California monitoring laws may have changed, but here are the laws of interest to Californians as they were in 1989: - Penal Code s 632.5 makes it a crime to maliciously monitor cellular radio telephone calls. - Penal Code s 635 outlaws the manufacture, sale, and possession of devices primarily or exclusively designed or intended for eavesdropping on cellular phones. - Penal Code s 636.5 makes it illegal to divulge any police radio service communication you hear on your radio to a criminal or to assist in the commission of a crime or help a criminal evade the law. In addition, Californians are subject to the same federal monitoring laws as other Americans. The most important one to remember is the Electronic Communication Privacy Act of 1986 which makes it a crime to listen to cellular or mobile radio telephones or common carrier paging, and outlaws descramblers. Section 705 of the Communications Act of 1934 makes it illegal to divulge the contents of what you hear on your radio to others unless the conversation was on ham radio or the citizens' band.